Brett, Florida
We meet at Wekiva Island, as quaint a watering hole as can be found. Set at the edge of Wekiva state park, the island is a favorite among locals.
Typically busy in the evening and on weekends, on a given weekday around lunch it’s relatively quiet. A few families enjoying the mild Florida spring weather, a few couples stealing time for a day-date, and two middle aged dudes sitting in a cabana.
I’ve known Brett for a few years. We spent time together on the coaching staff of our sons’ youth tackle football team. With 4 children, including an adopted son, Brett is one of the small group of men that I wanted to interview to start this project.
Although we’d spent a great deal of time around each other, we’d never actually had a conversation on fatherhood or parenting before.
This interview has been edited down from its original transcript…
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Micah
If you were to try and summarize, how would you describe what makes a great dad?
Brett
I mean it's tough to really nail that down to just one simple summary because my experience has been that being a dad is completely different and requires different things depending on what stage of life your kids are in.
As they start growing older each individual kid requires different things of you that's for sure, boys versus girls require different things too but I think overall the underlying theme of what makes a good dad would be a dad that's fully present.
Whether that's in the really young years when they're in diapers and not sleeping, being present as a dad, to me, is like being present for your wife. Taking turns at night, changing diapers, you know, being involved. Not being afraid to learn what you don't know and admit what you don't know and where you're maybe scared and feel out of your element.
I think ultimately it all boils down to presence at all stages in life. I've got teenage boys now and, you know, I've got one that wants to spend as much time with his friends now as he can and so being present for him is different because he's not always available. And so it's taking moments on car rides and making those intentional, trying to engage in conversation, entering into his world as much as I can.
Throughout it all I think being present for them, and not just there but intentional.
Micah
I love how you're describing this, you're loading a lot into the word present but I get what you're saying. It's not just that you're physically present, it's that you're aware and there's intentionality to your words and actions.
Brett
Yeah, mentally present and emotionally present. Being willing to, especially as they get older and start asking a lot more questions, be open about who you are too. So being vulnerable, being honest, "when I was 10, these are the things I struggled with." Or, "when I was 15, I had a terrible experience, and made some bad decisions doing this."
Micah
The things you learned the hard way, you would prefer your kids not have to learn the hard way?
Brett
Kids are gonna learn, because I feel like, especially with boys, you know, mothers, I think, speak differently into their daughters when they get into that age, into the teen years. But with boys you want them to not repeat your same mistakes and learn it the hard way, but they're also boys. Boys are constantly testing their limits.
They're trying to answer the question, “do I have what it takes?” And so they can hear me say something, they can see me live life the way I live life, but they've got to, at some point, learn from those mistakes themselves. And so hopefully they take the wisdom and the teaching and the coaching and all that. But yeah, ultimately, you know that they're going to push those boundaries and learn for themselves.
Micah
I love that, man. Dads that are actively seeking ways to be present, I would agree that's a great definition of what a good dad is. You're not going to be perfect. You're not going to say every perfect thing. You're not going to do the perfect thing in every situation, but your heart and your energy is intentional.
Brett
Just trying to be there. And I mean, some real life examples that are simple are like coaching, right? You can be a dad that sits on the sidelines or just or even drops your kid off to practice to sit in your car and scroll social media, or you can be out there on the sideline as an assistant coach or head coach.
I mean, there's limits to that where it's like, I remember when [child] and [child] both played soccer. I know nothing about soccer. I literally am not qualified to teach kids how to play soccer. I don't know how to run a practice. But there was another dad that was passionate about soccer, another great dad. And I'm like, fantastic, I'm going to go and be the dad on the sideline for this. I'm going to learn. I'm going to watch those practices so that I can speak into whatever. If [child] had a terrible practice, he's going to talk about on the way home.
I want to know exactly what's going on. I'm going to be active, watching and present, but I'm not coach in that case. I'm out of my league to coach a group of soccer kids.
Micah
I should learn that lesson as some point. I keep signing up to coach things I don't know how to coach.
I agree with the point you’re making, being present doesn't necessarily mean that you are the most prominent figure in the space, it's that you are intentional in the role that you can best play, you're going to do whatever that is with 100% effort.
Brett
Yeah, and I entered into his world in that sense, right? Like, he was learning soccer. I wanted to know what the freaking rules are.
Micah
I still don't understand offsides. More accurately, I choose not to understand offsides on principle.
Brett
This is something that he's really interested in. In this moment, I'm going to figure it out, right? I'm going to learn it. My daughter is in cheer. I know when she first started, I knew next to nothing about it. Now I can tell you what hitting zero means. I can tell you all the different lingo, I can ask her about specifics, because that's what she cares about. And so I'm going to enter into her world in that, so I can build a bridge into her heart.
Micah
What's your north star as a dad? How would you outline the cornerstone philosophy that you’re aiming for generally?
Brett
This is a loaded answer, but I know that I'm going to, in some way, wound my kids. Like, I'm an imperfect dude. My north star is that they don't end up with a big enough wound that puts them in counseling. You know what I mean? That they're having to work through for years. They're probably going to be in counseling because of me anyway, but shooting for not completely destroying their lives in some way.
Micah
Yeah man. I feel that. That's a fear of mine. First do no harm, right?
Brett
It's a very fear-based answer, but it's not inaccurate. And I say it's loaded because there's obviously some stuff with my own life, but then also it's nuanced too because you're going to make mistakes.
I feel like it's the same in coaching. There's two parallels in this, you can have a coach that that screams all day, and the kids don't feel like they care about them, and then you can have a coach that screams just the same amount, but those kids never doubt that that coach loves them cares about them wants them to succeed and achieve.
Some of the best coaches I had were the hardest on me, they were a pain in my ass but at the end of the day I felt like, “man this guy actually cares about me as a person, me as a player.” So I'm going to wound my kids in some ways, but at the end of the day if they never question my love for them or how much I care about them, how much they mean to me, that they are a priority to me, that I sacrifice for them, then all the things that I'm going to do that hurt them along the way hopefully aren't things that emotionally cripple them.
Micah
I don't know if you remember [old coach]. He was a Marine, I guess you don't say retired Marine, right? That man could string together profanity like poetry. I've never been yelled at more viciously by a single human being in my entire life. At one point in high school I moved away, and I had to go tell coach I wasn't going to be back for the next season. He stopped me and with sincere sadness he said, "I'm very sorry to hear that, I had big plans for you." I can't express how much that one sentence changed my life for the better, just knowing there was a coach that looked at me and saw something great in me. It didn't matter that he yelled, I understood that coach gave a shit about me and my future. That moment made him a transformational figure in my life.
Brett
Yeah, I had a similar experience with a youth coach, I can't even remember his name. He was my coach for one year. He, I mean the guy was probably a total mess outside of the football field, screamed at us, profanity everywhere, words I'd never heard before. But he gave me a nickname, Beast. And that, like... you had to live up to it.
It was just one practice I had, and he just started calling me the Beast. “I've got to live up to this name now, he sees something in me that's outside of just, ‘hey, that was a great tackle.’” It was a character trait. It became a persona for me, and so it was intentional. He could have called me [last name], you know. But there was an aspect of that nickname, meant the world to me. I never doubted that he cared for my development.
Micah
What are some of your most proud moments as a father so far?
Brett
I'm kind of living on cloud nine right now with just seeing my daughter, and the work ethic that she's put in to cheer, doing something that she really loves. They just got first place at worlds last night, so literally the best team for their division in the world. They went against 45 teams in this competition, and they were the best.
It's not the achievement, but it's the recognition of the work and the effort that she's put in. I'm proud that she has that work ethic and dedication.
Micah
How do you talk to your daughter about work ethic? How have you fostered that?
Brett
Yeah, I think it's, when you find something you love, work doesn't feel like work. I mean, she did gymnastics, she did soccer, she did cheer, she did swimming, and that's been the case for all of our kids. They've tried everything. And this is very sports-oriented, but that same work ethic that she has goes over into school.
I think it starts with helping them find what they love, and that might be something completely different than you ever thought they would be doing, so not putting your desires for them on their life. I played baseball and football, my kids only did one season of tee-ball. It pains me that they don't play baseball because I loved playing baseball so much, and I was good at it. I would have loved to see my kids play baseball, but they hated it and so I'm like, okay what's next. Trying to figure out what they love. "Hard" is always going to be "hard," but when you love doing something you learn to work through the hardship for it.
Also, I think just imitating work ethic for them. Allowing them to see how hard I work at my job. Bringing them into that world a little bit, telling them when I'm having a stressful week, telling them when I don't want to go to work on a specific day, or that I've got this really big meeting that's kind of on my mind right now, and then talking to them afterwards. Bringing them into your world as well so that they can see what you're doing as a dad to provide and work hard.
My son getting his recognition, making both varsity football and varsity lacrosse as a freshman. Was he the most talented kid deserving to be on those teams? I don't know, but I think ultimately he was given his opportunity because he put in the work, it was his work ethic.
And although I'm obviously very proud, I don't want my kids to ever think I'm proud of them just because they achieve a specific thing. I want them to hear and know that I'm proud of them even when they don't win, or in places where it may not be expected. We recently got my youngest into therapy, and that has been out of my element. I'm proud to see how that's helping him. It's something that, as a dad, I was frustrated that I couldn't do it myself.
There are moments in your life as a dad and just as a person in general where you want to be able to solve something. You want to be able to fix it. And there are some things that are just outside of your control. And there are people that are better qualified to jump in and assist, whether that's that soccer coach or whether that's a professional therapist who has spent years training and schooling to be able to teach us how to speak and play with my child. That was a learning lesson for us.
Micah
I think we as fathers, our instinct is to protect our kids from the hardships of the world, but there are just some times when life is going to happen to our kids. And so having the presence of mind to understand when those moments are, that you can't be their savior in all things, and it's time to bring in the soccer coach, right? I think it goes back to your original, defining characteristic of a good father being present. That is also presence. It's understanding where your limitations are.
If I talked with one of your kids in the future, what kind things do you hope they'd retain from their childhood with you as their dad?
Brett
Honestly, that they know how to love well, because they were loved well. And unapologetically, you know, without any sort of hindrance. Know how to love their future husband or wife, and their kids, because they had it modeled for them and felt that and experienced that in their own lives.
Micah
What's something you know now about being a dad that you wish you knew when you first became a dad?
Brett
That seven-hour golf sessions on a Saturday with your friends don't happen anymore. I think I probably would have waited a couple more years to have kids.
Micah
I had my first at 23, I feel attacked.
Brett
Okay. I had mine at 25 or 26, so I wasn't too far behind you. I knew it would be exhausting, I knew it would require a lot of me, but it really does require a total perspective and life change, whether or not you're married. It is a completely new phase of life. I didn't realize how selfish I was until I had kids. To try to do this well requires literally all of me.
Micah
It's sacrificial, if done right.
If a guy finds out he's going to be a dad, and comes across this article, what advice would you hope he absorbs?
Brett
You're not going to be perfect, it's not going to be perfect. There's a bunch of parenting books out there, read them for every age group that your kid is entering. Take advice from others. But I think primarily, just enter into it knowing that you're not going to do this perfectly.
There's nothing that prepares you for what you're going to feel, the feelings of joy and happiness and love, seeing your kid for the first time and all the first steps. First tooth loss, and first haircut, and first sports team, and first love, and each one of those also carries this crazy amount of, “do I have what it takes?” Every step along the way, you're constantly going to be asking yourself, do I have what it takes to do this? And it's okay if you don't know that.
Find the five people in your life that you feel like are great dads and go and ask them for advice. Go and ask them and be willing to even ask them, "can I get together with you once every six months and chat about this with you?"
One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given was, "your job is to build bridges into your kids' hearts, and they’re going to blow up as many of those bridges as possible by the time they're an adult, so your goal is to build enough to be left with a couple when you send them off into the world. Those bridges are your ability to speak into their heart, and at the end to maintain a relationship with them."
Go spend time around other good dads. You're going to learn from them. You're going to be encouraged by them, and you're going to see what they do. Ultimately understand that you're not going to be perfect. You're going to screw up. You're going to mess up. You know, your wife's going to be pissed at you. Your kids are going to get mad at you. All that is okay, just don't give up.
